#191402 eugene Sun Jan 20th 23:51:36 2008
And speaking of the Israeli government, here is an opinion that the government enjoys an 8% approval rating from its citizens, yet maintains its stranglehold on affairs thanks to the leftist-secularist press and some clever "bribing"
nu, why wait for elections then? maybe caroline glick and makor rishon should organize a putch to topple this illegitmate government, no?
as for clever bribing, there is no more clever bribing than that of charedi parties who play the political game to get money for their parasitical constituency that stubbornly refuses to share the national burden with israel's zionist population (secularist and national religious alike).
#191404 ben Mon Jan 21st 00:04:11 2008
actually the next bribe to be paid (if shas gets its wish) will be returning the child allotments to their former levels.
#191405 Will A new low. Mon Jan 21st 00:12:16 2008
I said earlier that : There has never been a mention of the siege conditions in Gaza in main Stream media in Ireland that I can remember.
Tonight on the 9pm News it was reported here that the UN has protested the latest development in the siege of Gaza that has seen a blockade imposed against Humanitarian aid entering the strip. On Irish National TV, this blatant act of collective punishment was attributted in the same sentence to rocket fire against Israel. It was later in the report claimed that Israeli spokespersons had confirmed that if the rocket fire ceases then the humanitarian blockade will be lifted.
I would like to exppress my feelings of shame and embarrasament at having witnessed this sickening spectacle on our national airwaves in which such savage acts are normalised and explained by my fellow nationals claiming to be professionals in journalism.
I want to state my complete opposition to the bias nature of such a report that would describe a blatant violation of Article 33 of the Geneva Convention then go on to qualify it without even explaining to the Irish people that these acts are a Human rights abuse under the Geneva Conevention. I define as illegitimate a national broadcaster that ignores it's responsibility to explain that the onus falls clearly with Israel to desist from such acts of mass-terrorism.
I wish to convey to the Palestinian people and in particular the people of Gaza the collective horror of all decent people to the plight you suffer.
I also wish to assure Gaza that even with such shameful state collaboration in your torture there are many people who clearly recognise your plight and sympathise with it and continue to oppose it daily.
Sumud.
#191406 gaza@siege.com Mon Jan 21st 01:53:21 2008
I also wish to assure Gaza...
shukran ya'achi will
yours
gaza
#191407 eugene Mon Jan 21st 01:57:07 2008
actually the next bribe to be paid (if shas gets its wish) will be returning the child allotments to their former levels.
are these the subsidies that bibi the secularist slashed?
#191408 Mon Jan 21st 02:09:55 2008
I define as illegitimate a national broadcaster that ignores it's responsibility to explain that the onus falls clearly with Israel to desist from such acts of mass-terrorism.
we accept and are humbled by will's definition and will certainly mend our ways.
down with mass-terrorism!
national broadcaster
asshole deleted
#191411 ben Mon Jan 21st 06:08:08 2008
eugene
actually bibi is now being called "worse than pharoh". pharoh tried and failed to kill jewish babies. bibi, by slashing the child allotments, has caused the birth rate to be lower. therefore he is worse than pharoh.
duplicated post
#191413 ben Mon Jan 21st 09:29:58 2008
i know a lot people who think that caroline glick is the only one in the country with a brain. i always like to point out that the difference between glick, eldar, barnea, margalit et al and the politicians is that the former merely sit at a computer and whine, each and every one of them. the politicians have to work within a system and get things done. further, for the former everything is soooooooo simple. just do this or that. it is all so clear.
#191414 Joe Everything is relative I guess Mon Jan 21st 14:01:55 2008
And speaking of the Israeli government, here is an opinion that the government enjoys an 8% approval rating from its citizens...
George,
And I thought Bush's numbers were bad...
#191415 george Mon Jan 21st 14:03:46 2008
191399 ben
I think that you are under-estimating the power of the press. For example, when Orsen Wells broadcast the "War of the Worlds" on radio, an awful lot of people actually took it seriously and even called up to volunteer to fight the Martian invasion. This, despite a (short) disclaimer that this was not for "real" (which, one supposes, they missed hearing). I wonder what it would have been like if, instead of a disclaimer, the radio had broaccast "this is not a test - I repeat this is not a test".
Though different people "trust" different sources, there is still a solid majority that will follow what the "mainstream" news media feed them - hook, line and sinker. Both in what is said an what is not said. What is not reported, didn't happen. Even something like Chernobyl (the nuclear reactor catastrphe) "did not happen" until it was revealed many years later in the media. It was not revealed until a Russian scientist (let it slip as an aside in some scientific paper he wrote. And it was the-power-of-the press that forced the Western powers (who knew full well what was happening but ignored it) to finally lay-down-the-threat to Germany that there will be retribution for "war crimes". And it was the incitement by the press* that led to the lynching of Leo Frank (they could just as easily lynched the janitor if the press had picked on the "Black" man instead of the "Jew"). True, it was not all** the media that picked on Frank, but as I said before, different people listen to different media.
* To quote: As it happens, the Phagan murder coincided with an intense newspaper circulation battle in Atlanta, sparked by the appearance of a Hearst paper called The Georgian, which initially viewed the case through the prism of Hearst's nationwide battle against child labor abuses. With The Georgian and its Atlanta rivals, The Journal and The Constitution, all hyping the case with constant extras, the police and legal authorities were under enormous pressure to make a quick arrest even before the evidence had been sifted.
** It was the "northern" papers that defended Frank, but they had little influence in the "south".
And just as a diversion, it if interest that one of the prosecutors, William Smith, took on the case against Frank specifically to prevent the "racist" south from convincting a black man out of racism, because, as a non-racist himself, he knew full well that a black wasn't intelligent enough to carry this off! (yes, that is a sarcastic statement, but paradoxically also true) But by the time the trial was over and Frank was convicted, Smith had found the janitor to be quite an intelligent person after all. What a revelation!
#191416 george Mon Jan 21st 14:19:16 2008
So here is a small example of "media". Is the "power crisis" in Gaza for "real", or did Hamas "manufacture" and artificial crisis for its own dastardly reasons?
www.debka.com/headline_print.php?hid=4955
#191417 george Mon Jan 21st 14:22:02 2008
I should point out regarding my 191416, that just last night there was a heart-wrenching display on a TV "news" program of the alleged humanitarian crisi, which undoubtedly convinced a lot of people.
#191418 george Mon Jan 21st 14:26:18 2008
And so constrast
www.debka.com/headline_print.php?hid=4955
with
www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/946350.html
and depending on which one is believed (as the two are obviously mutually exclusive), one makes one's choice on "which side" one is on.
#191419 george Mon Jan 21st 15:03:36 2008
191402 eugene
I don't understand the revelance of "makor rishon" - Glick writes for the Jerusalem Post.
And as far the proper use of the word "bribing" is concerned, the one who gives (in this case, Olmert) money in exchange for favours (in this case, the Hareidi vote) is the one doing the bribing.
#191420 ben Mon Jan 21st 16:09:46 2008
george
cc eugene
re 191415
all that may be well and true but so what? much of the press, including much of the left wing press, is against olmert. so i reject the hypothesis that it is the press that is keeping him in power.
glick also writes for maqor rishon.
#191422 ben Mon Jan 21st 16:22:51 2008
btw
if the press is so powerful that it can get everyone to believe what it wants them to believe, then why can't they convince more than 8% of the population that olmert is doing OK as PM?
#191423 eugene Mon Jan 21st 17:34:08 2008
And as far the proper use of the word "bribing" is concerned, the one who gives (in this case, Olmert) money in exchange for favours (in this case, the Hareidi vote) is the one doing the bribing.
george, you are right: the charedi are the recipients, not the dispensers, of bribes.
#191425 eugene Mon Jan 21st 17:49:13 2008
And speaking of the Israeli government, here is an opinion that the government enjoys an 8% approval rating from its citizens, yet maintains its stranglehold on affairs thanks to the leftist-secularist press and some clever "bribing"
www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1200308085522&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FPrinter
ben, i don't find glick smart at all: anyone who blames "the Hebrew press" generically for something is driven by something different than intelligence.
it looks like what she means by "Hebrew press" is the "media oligarchs" so she can make stupid right-wing statements like:
"AFTER SHARON was succeeded by Olmert, the media oligarchs from Haaretz, Channel 2, Yediot and Ma'ariv made clear that the extension of their "etrog" treatment to Olmert was conditioned on his adoption of their radical leftist agenda of land surrenders and settlement destruction."
This is hilarious, not only because all these papers lashed and continue to lash olmert, but also because it assumes olmert really gives a damn about what they write about him in ma'ariv (all these papers condemned him for mishandling the second lebanon war and some called for his resignation: yet strangely olmert not only hasn't resigned but also thinks he acted correctly during the war).
this is nothing but a case of right-wing sour grapes a la joe: when things don't go our way, blame the msm.
#191426 Jaron Mon Jan 21st 18:09:20 2008
Ben, Eugene,
I am with George here on the power of the press. No, the MSM can't completely control the sheeple, but it can certainly strongly influence their thinking. A major reason for the rise of things like the blogosphere, talk radio and Fox news was in reaction to the MSM gatekeepers overtly censoring or more subtly shading the news (in a sophisticated manner, rather than clumsy state cencorship methods). Does it work all time in molding public opinion? No. Does it work most of the time? IMO, yes.
#191427 eugene Mon Jan 21st 18:27:15 2008
yes, jaron - you know, i also heard that the jews control the press: not completely, but they certainly have a big influence.
and also holywood.
#191428 Wael Mon Jan 21st 18:43:12 2008
So when did this start, in your opinion? 1948?
George,
What do you mean by "this" ? The Arab-Israeli conflict ? what ?
Joe a link, a line or two, and zeh hu. What is so hard to understand?
#191430 ben Mon Jan 21st 19:57:12 2008
jaron
cc george/eugene
you guys are making an omlet. i am not getting into the arguement of how power does the press have. i am making a simple statement - that given that a good part of the press here is calling for olmert to get out of the PM's office, it is not the press that is keeping him in power.
#191431 eugene Mon Jan 21st 19:57:47 2008
nu, ben, what are you waiting for, your dream is at hand:
"Prince Turki, who was previously head of Saudi intelligence, said that if Israel accepted the Arab League plan and signed a comprehensive peace, "one can imagine the integration of Israel into the Arab geographical entity..."
"We will start thinking of Israelis as Arab Jews rather than
simply as Israelis..."
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/946355.html
#191432 eugene Mon Jan 21st 20:00:21 2008
And I thought Bush's numbers were bad...
i wonder what keeps bush in power - could it be msm?
#191433 ben correction to 430 Mon Jan 21st 22:21:30 2008
the arguement of how much power does the press have
#191434 ben Mon Jan 21st 22:58:04 2008
for all of you fans of religous violence, here is a story about another group who is not unwilling to break heads to obtain their goals:
An American immigrant was attacked and beaten Sunday night in Beit Shemesh by a gang of ultra-Orthodox zealots, in what appears to be an escalation of tension between religious groups in the city.
://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/946830.html
#191435 ChekAffothe insigogox@sweetville.net Mon Jan 21st 23:34:22 2008
And what do you to do with your freedom?
I'll tell you bashli.dubaimlm.com
#191436 Barlpereord CyncCrorm@highrelevantsearch.com Tue Jan 22nd 00:09:06 2008
I’d prefer reading in my native language, because my knowledge of your languange is no so well. But it was interesting! Look for some my links:
#191438 Joe MSM can kiss my tuchas Tue Jan 22nd 01:29:21 2008
wonder what keeps bush in power - could it be msm
Eugene -
Considering the US Congress and the Knesset are in single digits, Bush's 30% or so doesn't seem so bad.
#191439 eugene Tue Jan 22nd 02:48:03 2008
Considering the US Congress and the Knesset are in single digits, Bush's 30% or so doesn't seem so bad.
yeah, well, north korea is also not so bad compared with darfur...
#191440 Jaron Tue Jan 22nd 02:55:23 2008
Eugene,
Take a look at a book by Ze'ev Chefets called Double Vision. It is a bit dated on its topics and actors, but it does show the shading and omission done by the MSM. You are correct in that you can't say "any" or "all" with accuracy, but IMO you CAN make accurate generalizations about some institutional attitudes. To bring this down to earth here are some concrete examples:
1. Islamist parties and societies tend to disempower women when compared to western models.
2. The US democratic party tends to target the poor with its economic outlook.
3. The western left looks far more critically at states that speak Hebrew or English than those that don't.
4. San Fransisco is not a comfortable place to be socially conservative and Utah is not a comfortable place for the socially liberal.
Those don't hold true in every person in every case, but as general trends they hold water. Do you actually believe the MSM, alone among any other human institution, doesn't also have its own unique biases that color how it reports events?
#191441 eugene Tue Jan 22nd 04:01:43 2008
jaron,
i'm not getting into the philosophy of generalization and the general impact of media on public opinion.
all i'm saying if you read my posts is that caroline glick, who is a right-wing journalist in israel, is wrong that the israeli "msm" ("media oligarchs") are protecting olmert and helping him stay in power; or that (as george would want us to believe) the "Israeli government ... maintains its stranglehold on affairs thanks to the leftist-secularist press and some clever "bribing""
#191442 ben Tue Jan 22nd 07:05:42 2008
all i'm saying if you read my posts
WADR flaming the MSM is much more fun.
#191443 ben Tue Jan 22nd 09:41:14 2008
Israeli government ... maintains its stranglehold on affairs thanks to the leftist-secularist press and some clever "bribing""
i would agree that olmert is the expert at maintaining coalitions. maintaining a coalition means giving out money, changing laws to support the coalition partners, quashing laws that they don't like, etc. that is politics. olmert does it, sharon did it, bibi and rabin certainly did it, bush does it, and i have no doubt that the PM or presidents of france, GB and every other democracy does it as well.
is that a bribe? hardly. bribe is a word being used here for its shock value. this is politics.
#191446 ben Tue Jan 22nd 11:45:32 2008
the hero of the workers, mr chavez, has admitted to being a coke head. explains a lot.
#191447 Will As we speak Tue Jan 22nd 12:16:46 2008
According to a news report this morning, A fifteen-member body will convene Tuesday morning at 10 am GMT by request of a number of UN ambassadors from Arab states, as well as the non-voting Palestinian UN Ambassador. They will try to force an end to the Gaza impasse. The European Union has condemned the Israeli policy of collective punishment.
Gosh, I wonder will they come up with a solution. Will Israel be penalised. For as we all know Israel's policy of collective punishment of the Palestinians living in Gaza is in violation of UN resolutions and Humanitarian law.
I am at the edge of my seat. It all must be pretty scary for Israel.
#191448 ben Tue Jan 22nd 13:10:43 2008
for all you right winger fans david wurmser, Norman Podhoretz, and john bolton are speaking today at the herziliya conference.
//web11.mediazone.co.il/media/idc/LIVE/2008/
for all you leftie, commie, pinko eurolefties there is some guy from the european commission, Franco Frattini, is speaking. but even he thinks that hamas is a terrorist group.
#191449 ben Tue Jan 22nd 13:11:28 2008
According to a news report this morning . . .
wow, two reports in two (three?) days! this place is really over reported.
#191450 Joe Tue Jan 22nd 14:26:41 2008
for all you right winger fans david wurmser, Norman Podhoretz, and john bolton are speaking today at the herziliya conference
Considering the experience Israel has been having recently, maybe someone will listen this time...
www.herzliyaconference.org/Eng/_Articles/Article.asp?CategoryID=248&ArticleID=1931
#191451 ben Tue Jan 22nd 15:37:58 2008
Considering the experience Israel has been having recently, maybe someone will listen this time
bolton said that the state department is not allowing full disclosure about the syrian nuclear power plant that the idf destroyed because they don't want the extent of north korea's activities revealed. in bolton's words, the state department is working against the interest of japan and israel in order to get north korea removed from the list of countries sponsoring terror.
#191453 Jaron Tue Jan 22nd 17:43:26 2008
Will,
Firing rockets from Gaza (now unoccupied with no Jewish population!) to Sderot is also in violation of UN resolutions and Humanitarian law. Let's see if they have a problem with that.