for example when it talks about killing jews, we can't possibly understand what that means, it's so damn deep
#191504 eugene Thu Jan 24th 01:16:12 2008
no, will, i can't, it's one of those deep things like the hamas charter that only few can truly understand.
#191505 Will Your kind of people. Thu Jan 24th 01:32:26 2008
The Hamas charter is deep ?
Heck, I just thought it was religious, and based on 1500 years old scripture. Aint you into that kind of thing? Religious and mystically transcendent stuff ?
Aren't you some sort of zionist?
Now, Youre telling me its deep, Shoot! Doesnt look too deep to me.
#191506 eugene Thu Jan 24th 02:01:04 2008
oh, it's deep will, very deep.
for example when it talks about killing jews, we can't possibly understand what that means, it's so damn deep
#191507 Will Deep, religious and very old Thu Jan 24th 02:09:02 2008
OK Huge i'm intrigued , So what does it all mean?
#191508 eugene Thu Jan 24th 02:16:02 2008
how should i know, will? i'm no expert.
you might want to ask someone at the Arab Association for Human Rights.
#191509 TestName test@mail.com Thu Jan 24th 05:11:53 2008
Test myfunction comment
#191510 Efraim Percentages Thu Jan 24th 08:34:14 2008
Wael,
I noticed that you seem to consider the percentage of the Palestinian homeland under negotiation to be an important element in the dispute. This could be so but I find that according to Arab and some pro-Arab third party sources the definition of what the Palestinian homeland actually has changed over time.
For instance, two-thirds of the Palestinian homeland was lopped off in the early 1920's given over to an artificially created state and ceased being considered part of the Palestinian Arab homeland. The current state of Jordan is entirely made up of formerly Palestinian land and has a population two-thirds Palestinian but just make the suggestion that perhaps it ought to be considered a Palestinian state is anathema to Palestinian nationalists. That part of the homeland and people is gone and forgotten. After 1948, most of that 22 percent of the Palestinian homeland you talk about was considered a sovereign part of Jordan. I remember that right after the 1967 war and for a decade or more after, the argument was made and accepted in many quarters (including the Stockholm International Peace Reseach Institute where I came across it for the first but by far not the only time) that the only part of the Palestinian homeland was pre-1967 Israel and the West Bank was part of Jordan and should be returned to Jordan as called for in UNSC242. At the time I thought it odd that a Palestinian Arab homeland would be defined not by where the Palestinian Arabs are or were but by where the Jews are.
Wael, the Jews have been asked on several occassions to give up a high percentage of the Jewish homeland and have agreed to, on those occassions, if the consequence was the establishment of a Jewish state in the remaining portion. The Palestinians Arabs, when faced with the same offer always refused, not because the portion of their own homeland however they defined it, was inadequate, but because their own Palestinian nationalism was not based on creating their own state but on denying the Jews an opportunity to create a Jewish state. Though you can grumble about percentages of land, certainly the Hamas and probably Arafat at Camp David, are/were not concerned about getting a state for their own people but in denying a state for another people. In truth I really wish the conflict was only over where the border should be. Unfortunately for too many Palestinians the problem remains the existance of a Jewish state.
#191511 ben Thu Jan 24th 08:44:02 2008
these israelis and their interesting way of expressing things:
Defense officials reached the conclusion that it’s all about physics, and that Gaza is like a toothpaste tube. You squeeze it powerfully and the paste comes out of the weakest side – Egypt.
www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3498142,00.html
next step - figure out a way to force Gaza exports to go through el arish.
#191512 ben Thu Jan 24th 08:48:11 2008
tip to posters
I just noticed this feature in Mozilla Firefox. Firefox has an automatic spell check feature which informs you about spelling errors, even when writing in a text box like this one. for people like myself who can not spell, this is a life saver.
#191513 ben Thu Jan 24th 09:25:55 2008
The news comes on the heels of a new report by the International Rescue Committee which said that the conflict and humanitarian crisis in Congo had taken the lives of some 5.4 million people since 1998, and that 45,000 people continue to die there every month.
nothing else to add. well i will add something: i sure hope that the good citizens of ireland and sweden and norway who are holding the EU over the barrel will also remember these millions being slaughtered along with the folks at the wedding party. 37 were killed in week? 1400 were being killed every day down there.
#191514 Will Thu Jan 24th 12:40:34 2008
Ben,
Whats going on in the Congo? Is it really that different from whats going on in Palestine. US proxies vie for geopolitical hegemony of a resource rich region. Israel happens to be America's Pitbull in the Oil rich Middle East and maintains an atmosphere of fear and terror in order to keep opportunities open for exploitation of the region. In the Congo it's some other vicious little regime of militarised thugs throwing American weight around.
You must grab a serpent by it's head not it's tail, Glasshoppah.
And Ben, it ain't Sweden or Norway that's in a position to hold its grubby little politicians to ransom come Lisbon with the European Super State wet dream. It's just Ireland. Only us, Ben. Me and my mates.
#191515 Will Thu Jan 24th 13:53:11 2008
I noticed that you seem to consider the percentage of the Palestinian homeland under negotiation to be an important element in the dispute
Efraim, I dont think too many people believe your assertion that any of the occupied territory is under negotiation. It's under occuaption, and the Palestinians want that to end and they want the settlers out.
You can negotiate that with your government and the illegal immigrants if you want peace.
#191516 johnsoneer johnson3r@babusya.com Thu Jan 24th 14:10:20 2008
Hi all. Your site www.salam-shalom.net is very suitable. I think I've found my constant comunication place
Sorry if wrong branch
#191517 ben Thu Jan 24th 14:31:37 2008
It's just Ireland.
because only ireland will have a mandatory referendum, OK got it. and how exactly will your vote on the EU constitution affect the middle east?
#191518 Will Thu Jan 24th 15:36:54 2008
Well its quite simple Ben,
Politicians only give a toss about you at one time and thats when they need you to vote in a certain way. Our seedy little government here is very weak at the moment and they badly need to be seen to deliver up a victory for Europe so they can get the chance to look all statesmanly and noble instead of the corrupt little bunch of bandits that they are. The Lisbon Treaty is basically a slightly rehashed version of the EU Constitution that was rejected by the French and the Dutch. There is a lot riding on this and only the Irish are going to get a chance to reject it by the looks of things.
Part of the treaty will be the harmonising of Foreign policy across the Union. Trade and defence etc. I've been to some meeting where they are espousing the notion that this is a good chance to try to get the preferential trade conditions for Israel revoked on the basis of their failure to adhere to UN resolutions. They also say it's a good chance to reject the appeasement policies of Europe towards Israeli agression in the ME. If the Irish government think that these issues might threaten the Lisbon Treaty then it will become an urgent issue at the EU as all it takes is one country to scupper the whole deal.
I dont think the EU gives that much of a toss about Israel that it will risk it's grand homogenisation project just to keep America happy by turning a blinde eye to lil Bubba as he goes around kicking hell out of Gaza and Lebanon.
Its a chance to blackmail europe into getting a conscience over the mess they initiated in Palestine.
#191519 ben Thu Jan 24th 15:54:32 2008
will
ok will here comes a chance for you to put your money where you mouth is. you and your mates go for it, you lobby, you pressure, you march, you write your blog, you do everything in your power to get ireland "to reject the appeasement policies of Europe towards Israeli agression in the ME." your side wins, i pay 100 shekels to a charity of my choice. the other side wins, you pay a 100 whatever the irish currency is to a charity of your choice.
i'll even make it easy for you. winning will be defined as an official demand by the irish government to the EU to "get the preferential trade conditions for Israel revoked". the EU doesn't have to accept the demand, and the irish don't have to vote against the treaty in their referendum. Just an official demand by the irish government to change the treaty.
#191520 Will Thu Jan 24th 16:25:43 2008
Thats right, I am a complete tool Ben?
You sit on your ass and do nothing and you stand to get 100 Euros if I cant officialy get a call to change European policy from Dail Eireann.
I lobby, I pressure, I march, I write my blog, I do everything in my power to get Ireland to reject the appeasement policies of Europe towards Israeli aggression in the ME. And if I win I get 100 Shekels ? Whats that, the price of an ice cream ?
Besides it is more likely that the Irish would reject the treaty and/or the Eu take action of some sort against Israel than an Irish politician stand up and make "an official demand by the irish government to change the treaty."
Risk the Anti-Semitism slur in the EU parliament? He'd rather slap his own mammy in public.
These things are done with a nod and a wink. If I can get a nod and a wink out of an Irish politician then you buy me an ice cream. How bout that?
#191521 Will Even better Thu Jan 24th 16:37:49 2008
I read you proposal again and I see that after all my campaigning if I win, you get to make a donation to the Hebron Settlers Fund.
#191522 TestName test@mail.com Thu Jan 24th 16:38:01 2008
Test myfunction comment
#191523 ben Thu Jan 24th 16:41:56 2008
you get to make a donation to the Hebron Settlers Fund.
actually i have never given to them (i think); most of my charity goes to various soup kitchens in jerusalem.
#191524 ben Thu Jan 24th 16:43:46 2008
If I can get a nod and a wink out of an Irish politician then you buy me an ice cream.
for that to be the finishing line, you would have to agree to have me buy you an ice cream at the gutnick center in hebron (in case you are wondering, gutnick is not an arabic name).
#191525 ben Thu Jan 24th 16:45:18 2008
You sit on your ass and do nothing . . .
of course; as you stated in this particular content i am irrelevant. you and your mates are the ones with all the power.
#191526 Will Thu Jan 24th 17:21:57 2008
Do you think the guy who serves the ice cream there will have been out throwing Urine at the Palestinians before you order?
mmmmmmmmmm..........Lelakek Et Ha'etzba'ot!
#191527 ben Thu Jan 24th 17:26:42 2008
tov
you aren't willing to take up the bet, fine. work your butt off will. when it fails i'll have a good laugh.
#191528 eugene Thu Jan 24th 17:33:03 2008
you aren't willing to take up the bet, fine. work your butt off will. when it fails i'll have a good laugh.
i think the Dirty Hand reaching into palestine (and the congo) already has the fix in
#191529 Will Thu Jan 24th 17:37:08 2008
No, sorry Eugene, Im not getting that one either , that must be more of your infamous Jewish humour. Could you explain it to me, please?
#191530 JohnnyBU johnnybu@yalta.krim.ws Thu Jan 24th 17:42:41 2008
#191531 Will A viable bet. Thu Jan 24th 17:58:56 2008
I already told you Ben your bet is untenable.
What I will bet is that if it appears in some main stream news source (as opposed to indy or blog) that high level negotiations or chicanery is under way in order to swing a yes vote in Ireland , and if in the same article Israeli defense / security or trade relations are mentioned as being under scrutiny then you will pay 50 Shekels to a charity of my choice. If not, then I will pay 10 Euros to a charity of your choice.
#191532 ben Thu Jan 24th 18:22:54 2008
will
deal, except for the charity of your choice bit. you give your charity where ever you want and the same by me. you wouldn't accept me telling you to give to the hebron settlers fund and i won't have you telling me to give to tayush or adalah or similar type funds.
#191533 Will We have a bet. Thu Jan 24th 18:33:41 2008
Ok then Ben!
But if I win your charity was going to be Hizbalah , not Adalah.
You got to go for the serpents head not the tail, Glasshoppah.
#191534 ben Thu Jan 24th 18:44:48 2008
will
is there a date for this expected referendum? how long will i have to be kept in suspense? will the results come in before this season of torchwood finishes (i have to have something to keep my mind off the tension)?
#191535 Will Ben Thu Jan 24th 19:13:45 2008
To the best of my knowledge thay dont have a date for it yet, its the usual crap here. Not one single information brochure has passed under my nose to inform me why I should vote yes on the dam thing. Theyll just start shouting at us one day that we have a responsibility to Europe and future generations of Irish to vote yes.
They tell us that our gonads will fall off if we dont, or that our donkeys will go lame, but will they explain what the thing is? probably not.
It could easily blow up in their faces, the Nice referendum did.
Dont worry, ill let you know as soon as I hear something. The suspense is killing me already too. How long has the bet been on for now ? an hour?
#191536 Will Its the simplest ones that are the best. Thu Jan 24th 19:25:11 2008
BTW,
Can anyone give the up to the minute update on whats going on at the Gaza Egypt border? Did they herd up all the escaped Palestinians and get them back into their cage or are they still running amok down in Egypt? Happy days.
You have to give it to Hamas, blow up a fence and the Gazans are kings for a day. It must feel beautiful to get the hell out of that place so unexpectedly.
Long live the Gazans.
#191537 Wael Thu Jan 24th 22:55:57 2008
Will,
If Egypt had one iota democracy there wouldn't be a fence to begin with. Anyways, Mubarak was taken by surprise, he says he "allowed" the Gazans in for two days to "get supplies" and "get back[to their cells]".
#191539 TestName test@mail.com Fri Jan 25th 02:46:34 2008
Test myfunction comment
#191540 Joe The Gaza Conundrum via the Internet Fri Jan 25th 03:01:36 2008
If Egypt had one iota democracy there wouldn't be a fence to begin with. Anyways, Mubarak was taken by surprise, he says he "allowed" the Gazans in for two days to "get supplies" and "get back[to their cells]".
Wael -
So now you can see thay Mubarak cares about the Poor Palestinians™ about as much as you and Will.
Keep it non personal
#191542 Will Yeh baby. Fri Jan 25th 03:33:54 2008
Wael,
It's a great thing - to blow a major hole in a terrible international barrier- No?
Such a wonderful act (dont try it at home,fukrs).
Congratulations Gaza, Hamas, Egypt.
What do you think , Wael ? Happy Days, Yeh ?
Be cool, Be strong, Gaza Rocks.
#191543 eugene viva hamas! sumud sumud sumud Fri Jan 25th 04:34:28 2008
"This week Hamas checkmated Israel in three quick moves. "
http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/948098.html
#191544 Will Fundamentally mistaken Fri Jan 25th 11:45:43 2008
From Eugene's Article.
The scenes from the Gaza Strip, which showed happy crowds of people loaded with goods returning home from Egypt, support the notion that Israel's decision to impose an economic embargo on the Strip was fundamentally mistaken.
And I guess there you have it. By refusing to treat the Palestinians like Humans, Israel has made itself completely irrelevant in solving it's own biggest problem.
#191545 Will Consistency is important. Fri Jan 25th 12:00:14 2008
Checking the news, it seems there was a lot of violence in the Jerusalem/ WB area last night carried out by groups linked with Fateh. More people were hurt than Hamas in the Gaza Strip have hurt in many Qassam Launches.
Does this mean that Fateh will now be treated as a terrorist entity and the relevant area will be sealed off and starved until they stop attacking Israel?
Isnt that how it works?
#191546 ben Fri Jan 25th 13:28:31 2008
Checking the news, it seems there was a lot of violence in the Jerusalem/ WB area last night carried out by groups linked with Fateh
the two terrorist killed in kfar etzion were aligned with hamas.
#191547 ben Fri Jan 25th 13:37:22 2008
Israel's decision to impose an economic embargo on the Strip was fundamentally mistaken.
if the idea was to pressure the palestinians into getting rid of the hamas government, that was and is stupid and will be stupid the next time the goi does it. it never works, not here or in lebanon.
if the idea is to embargo the strip simply because there should be no economic relationship until hamas agrees to adhere to decisions made by their government, then the policy is fine.
#191549 Will What a mess. Fri Jan 25th 16:18:03 2008
there should be no economic relationship until hamas agrees to adhere to decisions made by their government
Ben,
No Economic relationship with who ?
Who is Hamas's government?
If you check, you will find that Hamas is the government, and they are adhering to their perfectly logical decision to treat Israel as an enemy.
#191550 Will Fri Jan 25th 16:24:14 2008
the two terrorist killed in kfar etzion were aligned with hamas.
Yes, but the raid on the border police station was Fateh, No?